Mae el E46 2.8L es la versión anterior del 328i que igual sigue pichazeando al Civic Si yo puse la ficha tecnica del Si NUEVO también que es más potente que uno viejo , el único que puede que el Si le gane y aún así no es pichazeado como vos decís es al BMW 318i el serie 3 menos potente y viejo dudo mucho que le de a un 320i nuevo.
Hyundai nombrada mejor marca en alemania, le duela a quien le duela
- Iniciador del tema joseacv
- Start date
Mae el E46 2.8L es la versión anterior del 328i que igual sigue pichazeando al Civic Si yo puse la ficha tecnica del Si NUEVO también que es más potente que uno viejo , el único que puede que el Si le gane y aún así no es pichazeado como vos decís es al BMW 318i el serie 3 menos potente y viejo dudo mucho que le de a un 320i nuevo.
hay mae como le explico... me imagino q sera xq el 328 pesa un pi...zo mas q un civic o un corolla tsport hasta le aseguro q una Sentra SER le pega un buen susto al 328 e46 cuidado sino se lo lleva entienda AMG potencia/peso es lo q importa de verda ahh y el torque q en eso si anda muy bien el 328 x eso me imagino q en una muy buena recta o una cuestota si gane el 328
Están comparando seguridad, no "lujo, comfort, potencia, historia"... Qué complejo el suyo.
Leond
Forero Regular
Tranquilo mae, este mae es pura hablada sacada del Gran Turismo 5
TOME AMG, LAS IMAGENES HABLAN SOLAS... TACO A TACO UN 328i NUEVO, CONTRA UN CIVIC SI NUEVO...
ENTIENDA MAE NO PORQUE DIGA AMG O BMW TIENE QUE SER MEJOR...
AHHH POR CIERTO... No me venga a salir con M3 o una vara de esas revergudas que obviamente no estan en el mismo nivel...
Pero vea pito un 328i, que es muchisimo mas caro y mejor carro que un Civic en potencia le da riata...
Última edición:
Para q tratan d explicarle a una persona q simplemente no tiene el acervo cultutral suficiente para discutir con educación y presentar justificaciones razonables e inteligentes a sus opiniones? Para q tratan de convertir el agua en vino? Amg simplemente no utulizado su cerebro lo suficiente para haberlo convertido en un órgano útil... No desperdicien su conocimiento y tiempo en una tarea tan vana!
Leond
Forero Regular
Mae tiene toda la razon!!!
Hyundai vs. BMW? It's Not As Crazy As You Might Think
Veremos si amg habla inglés....
Hyundai Genesis Sedan vs. 2011 BMW 5-Series?
Appeal: The J.D. Power and Associates APEAL survey asks car buyers to rate how pleased they are with their vehicles, from styling to interior design execution, over 90 factors in all. In the 2009 APEAL Genesis topped the 5 Series.?
Power: Both are available with six- or eight-cylinder engines. 290 hp for the V6 Genesis versus 300 hp for the turbocharged, six-cylinder BMW. 385-hp for the V8 Genesis versus 400 hp for the turbocharged V8 BMW.?
Price: The 3.8-liter Genesis V6 starts at $33,000, while the 535i starts at $49,600.
Extras: Both the 5-Series and Genesis get 3-star ratings from Automotive Leasing Guide for resale value.
Bottom Line: This all depends on how much fifteen grand is worth to you. The Genesis is a fine machine. But where BMW excels is the integration of all the parts into one spectacular day-to-day driving machine. Plus, the 2011 5-Series design is a sleeker, more traditionally taut design than the outgoing model. The Genesis seems to have a clearer advantage over the $45,600 Lexus GS350 whose ride and handling is closer to that of the Genesis.
Advantage: BMW, but not by as wide a margin as you might have thought.?
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 vs. BMW 328i Coupe
Appeal: Neither vehicle placed in the top three within their category in Power’s last APEAL ranking.?
Power: Both of these models offer six-cylinder engines: 300 hp for the turbocharged BMW versus 306 for the V6 Hyundai.
Price: The 328i coupe starts at $36,200, while the Genesis coupe starts at $25,000 with a V6. A smaller engine is available in the Genesis coupe, while the BMW doesn't go any smaller than the inline six found in the 328i.
Extras: The BMW 3-Series gets a four-star rating from ALG, while Genesis coupe gets three stars. Both vehicles get a combined 20 mpg.
Bottom Line: This is sort of unfair. The Genesis Coupe actually seems disconnected from the sedan. That's because the coupe has a shorter wheelbase and weighs some 600 pounds less. The Genesis Coupe is offered at a much lower price, making it more of a challenger to the Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro.
Advantage: BMW 328i over Genesis Coupe, but the Hyundai ties with a comparably priced and equipped Mustang.?
2011 Hyundai Equus vs. 2011 7-Series?
Appeal: We’ll just have to wait for these results.
Power: The Equus has a 4.6-liter V8 that generates 385 hp, versus 315 for the base Bimmer with a 3.0-liter, turbocharged 6-cylinder.?
Price: The Equus is expected to sticker at $50K-$60K. This is right in the middle of 5-Series territory. But the 2011 BMW 740i starts at $70,150 and stickers at $82,000 when typical popular features were added.?
Extras: Said Autoblog at the debut of Equus: “If Hyundai ever decides to gamble and attack the next price segment up from the Genesis sedan, they clearly have the ammo to do so. The Equus is the real deal."
Bottom Line: Hard to give an advantage when the Equus isn’t here yet. But getting what is believed to be a great, luxurious car that’s this well detailed, and for about $30,000 less than the comparable 7-Series? That has our attention.
Advantage: Hyundai.
Hyundai Veracruz vs. BMW X5
Appeal: The X5 is ranked second to the Porsche Cayenne on J.D. Power’s most recent APEAL study, while the Veracruz did not place in the top three in its category.
Power: The 3.8-liter V6 in the Veracruz produces 260 hp, while the Bimmer’s new 3.0-liter, turbocharged inline-six churns out 300.?
Price: The Hyundai Veracruz Limited AWD with both the nav and entertainment package stickers at $35,895. The X5 xDrive35i with AWD hits the wallet starting at $45,800 and goes up from there.?
Extras: Combined fuel economy is 18 mpg for both the Hyundai and the Bimmer. The X5 gets a three-star ALG rating for resale value, while Veracruz is unrated.?
Bottom Line: If you are a single person, or perhaps married with one child, the X5 is unquestionably a better-tailored suit. The Veracruz is an amazing value. It has a nicely appointed interior, attractive styling and a handy amount of utility if your family has a couple of kids. Both keep you clear of the minivan salesman.?
Advantage: It’s a tie. Take the X5 if you don’t have kids, and the Veracruz if you do, and stick the difference in the college fund. No regrets.?
Hyundai Santa Fe vs. BMW X3?
Appeal: Neither SUV ranked in the top three of their Power APEAL categories.
Power: Santa Fe packs a 3.5-liter V6, which produces 276 hp, while the X3 makes 260 hp from its 3.0-liter inline-six. The Santa Fe also offers a four-cylinder; the X3 does not.?
Price: A Santa Fe Limited AWD stickers at $30,295, while the X3 starts at $38,850.
Extras: Santa Fe fuel economy is 22 mpg, and it has a 3-star ALG rating. X3 gets 19 mpg and also scores a 3-star rating.
Bottom Line: A loaded Santa Fe is very tempting compared to an X3 that has not been a favorite of many reviewers. The Hyundai even gets better fuel economy from its larger displacement engine. And the extra $10k or so could buy a Hyundai Accent for another, less deserving, family member.
Advantage: Hyundai.
And since you asked: LeBron James over Kobe Bryant. Ted Williams over Joe DiMaggio. Ford Mustang over Chevy Camaro. Albert Pujols over Alex Rodriguez.?Marianne over Ginger. Shirley Partridge over Carol Brady. Captain Kirk over Captain Picard. Muhammed Ali over Joe Louis. And Catwoman (Julie Newmar) over Batgirl.
Our Verdict: Hyundai vs. BMW
Mid-size SedanHyundai Genesis Sedan BMW 5-series (Our Pick)
CoupeHyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 BMW 328i coupe (Our Pick)
Full-size SedanHyundai Equus (Our Pick) BMW 7-series
Mid-size Crossover Hyundai Veracruz (Tie) BMW X5 (Tie)
Small CrossoverHyundai Santa Fe (Our Pick) BMW X3
Veremos si amg habla inglés....
Hyundai Genesis Sedan vs. 2011 BMW 5-Series?
Appeal: The J.D. Power and Associates APEAL survey asks car buyers to rate how pleased they are with their vehicles, from styling to interior design execution, over 90 factors in all. In the 2009 APEAL Genesis topped the 5 Series.?
Power: Both are available with six- or eight-cylinder engines. 290 hp for the V6 Genesis versus 300 hp for the turbocharged, six-cylinder BMW. 385-hp for the V8 Genesis versus 400 hp for the turbocharged V8 BMW.?
Price: The 3.8-liter Genesis V6 starts at $33,000, while the 535i starts at $49,600.
Extras: Both the 5-Series and Genesis get 3-star ratings from Automotive Leasing Guide for resale value.
Bottom Line: This all depends on how much fifteen grand is worth to you. The Genesis is a fine machine. But where BMW excels is the integration of all the parts into one spectacular day-to-day driving machine. Plus, the 2011 5-Series design is a sleeker, more traditionally taut design than the outgoing model. The Genesis seems to have a clearer advantage over the $45,600 Lexus GS350 whose ride and handling is closer to that of the Genesis.
Advantage: BMW, but not by as wide a margin as you might have thought.?
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 vs. BMW 328i Coupe
Appeal: Neither vehicle placed in the top three within their category in Power’s last APEAL ranking.?
Power: Both of these models offer six-cylinder engines: 300 hp for the turbocharged BMW versus 306 for the V6 Hyundai.
Price: The 328i coupe starts at $36,200, while the Genesis coupe starts at $25,000 with a V6. A smaller engine is available in the Genesis coupe, while the BMW doesn't go any smaller than the inline six found in the 328i.
Extras: The BMW 3-Series gets a four-star rating from ALG, while Genesis coupe gets three stars. Both vehicles get a combined 20 mpg.
Bottom Line: This is sort of unfair. The Genesis Coupe actually seems disconnected from the sedan. That's because the coupe has a shorter wheelbase and weighs some 600 pounds less. The Genesis Coupe is offered at a much lower price, making it more of a challenger to the Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro.
Advantage: BMW 328i over Genesis Coupe, but the Hyundai ties with a comparably priced and equipped Mustang.?
2011 Hyundai Equus vs. 2011 7-Series?
Appeal: We’ll just have to wait for these results.
Power: The Equus has a 4.6-liter V8 that generates 385 hp, versus 315 for the base Bimmer with a 3.0-liter, turbocharged 6-cylinder.?
Price: The Equus is expected to sticker at $50K-$60K. This is right in the middle of 5-Series territory. But the 2011 BMW 740i starts at $70,150 and stickers at $82,000 when typical popular features were added.?
Extras: Said Autoblog at the debut of Equus: “If Hyundai ever decides to gamble and attack the next price segment up from the Genesis sedan, they clearly have the ammo to do so. The Equus is the real deal."
Bottom Line: Hard to give an advantage when the Equus isn’t here yet. But getting what is believed to be a great, luxurious car that’s this well detailed, and for about $30,000 less than the comparable 7-Series? That has our attention.
Advantage: Hyundai.
Hyundai Veracruz vs. BMW X5
Appeal: The X5 is ranked second to the Porsche Cayenne on J.D. Power’s most recent APEAL study, while the Veracruz did not place in the top three in its category.
Power: The 3.8-liter V6 in the Veracruz produces 260 hp, while the Bimmer’s new 3.0-liter, turbocharged inline-six churns out 300.?
Price: The Hyundai Veracruz Limited AWD with both the nav and entertainment package stickers at $35,895. The X5 xDrive35i with AWD hits the wallet starting at $45,800 and goes up from there.?
Extras: Combined fuel economy is 18 mpg for both the Hyundai and the Bimmer. The X5 gets a three-star ALG rating for resale value, while Veracruz is unrated.?
Bottom Line: If you are a single person, or perhaps married with one child, the X5 is unquestionably a better-tailored suit. The Veracruz is an amazing value. It has a nicely appointed interior, attractive styling and a handy amount of utility if your family has a couple of kids. Both keep you clear of the minivan salesman.?
Advantage: It’s a tie. Take the X5 if you don’t have kids, and the Veracruz if you do, and stick the difference in the college fund. No regrets.?
Hyundai Santa Fe vs. BMW X3?
Appeal: Neither SUV ranked in the top three of their Power APEAL categories.
Power: Santa Fe packs a 3.5-liter V6, which produces 276 hp, while the X3 makes 260 hp from its 3.0-liter inline-six. The Santa Fe also offers a four-cylinder; the X3 does not.?
Price: A Santa Fe Limited AWD stickers at $30,295, while the X3 starts at $38,850.
Extras: Santa Fe fuel economy is 22 mpg, and it has a 3-star ALG rating. X3 gets 19 mpg and also scores a 3-star rating.
Bottom Line: A loaded Santa Fe is very tempting compared to an X3 that has not been a favorite of many reviewers. The Hyundai even gets better fuel economy from its larger displacement engine. And the extra $10k or so could buy a Hyundai Accent for another, less deserving, family member.
Advantage: Hyundai.
And since you asked: LeBron James over Kobe Bryant. Ted Williams over Joe DiMaggio. Ford Mustang over Chevy Camaro. Albert Pujols over Alex Rodriguez.?Marianne over Ginger. Shirley Partridge over Carol Brady. Captain Kirk over Captain Picard. Muhammed Ali over Joe Louis. And Catwoman (Julie Newmar) over Batgirl.
Our Verdict: Hyundai vs. BMW
Mid-size SedanHyundai Genesis Sedan BMW 5-series (Our Pick)
CoupeHyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 BMW 328i coupe (Our Pick)
Full-size SedanHyundai Equus (Our Pick) BMW 7-series
Mid-size Crossover Hyundai Veracruz (Tie) BMW X5 (Tie)
Small CrossoverHyundai Santa Fe (Our Pick) BMW X3
diegose
Forero Regular
Está interesante esa comparación entre Hyundai y BMW pero siento que está parcializada hacia Hyundai porque están dejando de lado algo en donde, hay que admitirlo, BMW le lleva mucha ventaja y es en el HANDLING o DRIVING FEELING. Es decir, la sensación al manejarlo. La sensación de manejo de un BMW con su tracción trasera, estabilidad y demás técnicas que han mantenido por años y que parece que el carro va montado sobre rieles es uno de los grandes puntos a su favor que tienen los BMW. Aunque claro, también se valora otros aspectos como los que señalaron de los Honda. Un Honda Civic SI del año, con todas las extras que Ud. quiera vs un 325i basicón y/o un Honda Accord V6 3.5 del año con todas las extras que Ud. quiera vs un 523i/525i basicón y aun así fácil doblan en su precio los BMW a los Honda y así también se deprecian.
Leond
Forero Regular
No no no mae, BMW seguira siendo una marca de lujo, con todos sus beneficios y valores agregados.
El asunto aca a sido con un forero por ahi que solo saber decir: "Mierda cualquier carro que no es amg o bmw, solo porque yo lo digo"
El mae solo sabe desprestigiar y basurear todo lo que no tenga que ver con su amada marca automotriz, lo que pasa que lo hace sin datos fidedignos o con verdadero fundamento.
Todo lo demas son post en buena nota y con ideas coherentes y sobre todo entretenidas.
Yo puedo subir un video en Youtube donde un Elantra le gane a un Ferrari , ya puse la ficha técnica de ambos y es más que obvio que el Si no le va a ganar a un 328i , además ponen el Si Coupe y el 328i Sedan , por qué no ponen el 328i Coupe?
Puede que usted no , otro sí.
Leond
Forero Regular
Imposible, ya no se puede, si poniendole un video donde se demuestra tajantemente lo que en un pichaso de post atras le tratamos de decir, y no entiende, no hay forma...
ESTA BIEN MAE... TODOS LOS DEMAS CARROS QUE NO SEAN BMW O MERCEDES SON UNA MIERDA... OJALA TODOS FUERAMOS TAN PLATUDOS COMO UD PARA TENER, CUANTOS SON 2 O 3 DE ESOS??
Para mí no son una mierda el Civic Si es muy buen carro , camina bien y tiene un precio justo.
Veremos si amg habla inglés....
Hyundai Genesis Sedan vs. 2011 BMW 5-Series?
Appeal: The J.D. Power and Associates APEAL survey asks car buyers to rate how pleased they are with their vehicles, from styling to interior design execution, over 90 factors in all. In the 2009 APEAL Genesis topped the 5 Series.?
Power: Both are available with six- or eight-cylinder engines. 290 hp for the V6 Genesis versus 300 hp for the turbocharged, six-cylinder BMW. 385-hp for the V8 Genesis versus 400 hp for the turbocharged V8 BMW.?
Price: The 3.8-liter Genesis V6 starts at $33,000, while the 535i starts at $49,600.
Extras: Both the 5-Series and Genesis get 3-star ratings from Automotive Leasing Guide for resale value.
Bottom Line: This all depends on how much fifteen grand is worth to you. The Genesis is a fine machine. But where BMW excels is the integration of all the parts into one spectacular day-to-day driving machine. Plus, the 2011 5-Series design is a sleeker, more traditionally taut design than the outgoing model. The Genesis seems to have a clearer advantage over the $45,600 Lexus GS350 whose ride and handling is closer to that of the Genesis.
Advantage: BMW, but not by as wide a margin as you might have thought.?
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 vs. BMW 328i Coupe
Appeal: Neither vehicle placed in the top three within their category in Power’s last APEAL ranking.?
Power: Both of these models offer six-cylinder engines: 300 hp for the turbocharged BMW versus 306 for the V6 Hyundai.
Price: The 328i coupe starts at $36,200, while the Genesis coupe starts at $25,000 with a V6. A smaller engine is available in the Genesis coupe, while the BMW doesn't go any smaller than the inline six found in the 328i.
Extras: The BMW 3-Series gets a four-star rating from ALG, while Genesis coupe gets three stars. Both vehicles get a combined 20 mpg.
Bottom Line: This is sort of unfair. The Genesis Coupe actually seems disconnected from the sedan. That's because the coupe has a shorter wheelbase and weighs some 600 pounds less. The Genesis Coupe is offered at a much lower price, making it more of a challenger to the Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro.
Advantage: BMW 328i over Genesis Coupe, but the Hyundai ties with a comparably priced and equipped Mustang.?
2011 Hyundai Equus vs. 2011 7-Series?
Appeal: We’ll just have to wait for these results.
Power: The Equus has a 4.6-liter V8 that generates 385 hp, versus 315 for the base Bimmer with a 3.0-liter, turbocharged 6-cylinder.?
Price: The Equus is expected to sticker at $50K-$60K. This is right in the middle of 5-Series territory. But the 2011 BMW 740i starts at $70,150 and stickers at $82,000 when typical popular features were added.?
Extras: Said Autoblog at the debut of Equus: “If Hyundai ever decides to gamble and attack the next price segment up from the Genesis sedan, they clearly have the ammo to do so. The Equus is the real deal."
Bottom Line: Hard to give an advantage when the Equus isn’t here yet. But getting what is believed to be a great, luxurious car that’s this well detailed, and for about $30,000 less than the comparable 7-Series? That has our attention.
Advantage: Hyundai.
Hyundai Veracruz vs. BMW X5
Appeal: The X5 is ranked second to the Porsche Cayenne on J.D. Power’s most recent APEAL study, while the Veracruz did not place in the top three in its category.
Power: The 3.8-liter V6 in the Veracruz produces 260 hp, while the Bimmer’s new 3.0-liter, turbocharged inline-six churns out 300.?
Price: The Hyundai Veracruz Limited AWD with both the nav and entertainment package stickers at $35,895. The X5 xDrive35i with AWD hits the wallet starting at $45,800 and goes up from there.?
Extras: Combined fuel economy is 18 mpg for both the Hyundai and the Bimmer. The X5 gets a three-star ALG rating for resale value, while Veracruz is unrated.?
Bottom Line: If you are a single person, or perhaps married with one child, the X5 is unquestionably a better-tailored suit. The Veracruz is an amazing value. It has a nicely appointed interior, attractive styling and a handy amount of utility if your family has a couple of kids. Both keep you clear of the minivan salesman.?
Advantage: It’s a tie. Take the X5 if you don’t have kids, and the Veracruz if you do, and stick the difference in the college fund. No regrets.?
Hyundai Santa Fe vs. BMW X3?
Appeal: Neither SUV ranked in the top three of their Power APEAL categories.
Power: Santa Fe packs a 3.5-liter V6, which produces 276 hp, while the X3 makes 260 hp from its 3.0-liter inline-six. The Santa Fe also offers a four-cylinder; the X3 does not.?
Price: A Santa Fe Limited AWD stickers at $30,295, while the X3 starts at $38,850.
Extras: Santa Fe fuel economy is 22 mpg, and it has a 3-star ALG rating. X3 gets 19 mpg and also scores a 3-star rating.
Bottom Line: A loaded Santa Fe is very tempting compared to an X3 that has not been a favorite of many reviewers. The Hyundai even gets better fuel economy from its larger displacement engine. And the extra $10k or so could buy a Hyundai Accent for another, less deserving, family member.
Advantage: Hyundai.
And since you asked: LeBron James over Kobe Bryant. Ted Williams over Joe DiMaggio. Ford Mustang over Chevy Camaro. Albert Pujols over Alex Rodriguez.?Marianne over Ginger. Shirley Partridge over Carol Brady. Captain Kirk over Captain Picard. Muhammed Ali over Joe Louis. And Catwoman (Julie Newmar) over Batgirl.
Our Verdict: Hyundai vs. BMW
Mid-size SedanHyundai Genesis Sedan BMW 5-series (Our Pick)
CoupeHyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 BMW 328i coupe (Our Pick)
Full-size SedanHyundai Equus (Our Pick) BMW 7-series
Mid-size Crossover Hyundai Veracruz (Tie) BMW X5 (Tie)
Small CrossoverHyundai Santa Fe (Our Pick) BMW X3
Mae vos sos guarda en la Hyundai? Jajajaja que "comparación" más parcializada , siga comparando Hyundai con BMW da bastante gracia , esta bien que tengas un Hyundai pero ellos no te dan de comer para que los defiendas a capa y espada? o sos conserje de la Hyundai? :-o
¿Y cuál es el beneficio real que obtiene uno con una marca que sea más lujosa que otra? Al chile, dígame. ¿Qué es? ¿Que usted tiene un fetiche raro y se riega cada vez que se sube a uno de sus Meches?
No le niego que Meche sea una marca lujosa, a mí me gusta mucho esa marca, y espero poder comprarme un carro de esos algún día, porque me gustan. Pero sólo por eso, porque me gustan, no porque vea que vaya a ganar algo que valga la pena al comprar un carro lujoso.
¿Entonces el BMW 528i, el 535i, el 535i GT, el 550i GT, y el 550i son mucho más seguros que el Sonata y el Sonata híbrido (todos año 2011)? Digo, porque recuerde que todos esos modelos obtuvieron cinco estrellas en las pruebas de la NHTSA... Están en el mismo nivel hablando de seguridad.
¿Entonces?
Y si tal BM modelo 90 y algo recibió sólo 3 estrellas en seguridad, y un Corolla del mismo año también, ¿qué? ¿Es BM es más seguro sólo por ser BM? ¿Qué es, que para BM aplica una fórmula especial y la cantidad de estrellas se multiplica por 2 o por 3?
¿Usted cree que las pruebas de seguridad que hacen organizaciones como la NHTSA y la EuroNCAP son sólo actividades de adorno? ¿Cómo está el arroz entonces? ¿BM fue boicoteado en las pruebas, o es que ser BM esas organizaciones le hicieron trampa o algo así?
Por cierto, el que defiende una marca a capa y espada es usted, mae. ¿Qué es, que usted es conserje de Autostar?
Última edición:
Mae Cesar sin afán de ofender como bien dijo este otro mae hay un Driving Feeling yo he manejado Hyundais nuevos no te voy a decir que son incomodos o que son una basura porque NO es verdad , Hyundai ha mejorado mucho eso es cierto pero no te ofrece esa sensación de control de poder que podes sentir en un Mercedes mas o menos nuevo o un BMW , tampoco es que manejar un Meche del 90 sea la gran cosa ya son carros viejos y obvio un Hyundai nuevo es superior el beneficio no es nada más lujo aunque también va según el carro que compres sea y o x por eso te pregunto sin afán de ofender vos has sentido un Mercedes? BMW? Audi? , Cual?
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